Caught with our pants down

15 Comments on Caught with our pants down

Maciej on Wed, Aug 16th 2006 11:02 PM


Dear Yael, please do not be so much upset. First of all, allow me to wholeheartedly express my regret due to the deaths of all people who died, and especially Israeli and Lebanese civilians. However, please note the following circumstances: (i) you’ve had to do with a very well prepared enemy, I am inclined to believe that Hezbollah actually wanted IDF to enter Lebanon to get Israel caught in a war extremely difficult to win; (ii) I’m also inclined to believe that, regardless of the Hezbollah’s plans, you had really no choice. Would it be better to allow them to blackmail you by demanding that you release militants, probably hundreds of them? Would it be better to allow them to bomb you with their missiles without any punishment? – I’m very much afraid that the bombing of Haifa would happen sooner or later, regardless of your present-day reaction; (iii) it is still possible that, from a certain perspective, everybody will think about the present Lebanese campaign as another victory of Israel: this is because a considerable chance exists that the Lebanese governement could be made Hezbollah-free, and will start to think more rationally. And that the ordinary people in Lebanon will finaly ask some inconvenient questions. For instance, who really caused that so many of their children died?…
Needless to say, I agree with you that, this time, IDF really committed grave errors. And, in particular, the world won’t be able to forget the Qana tragedy very soon. But, on the other hand, I think that both your government, whoever forms it, and IDF themselves, really have a very restricted field of maneouver. Look, Poland is often considered (deservedly or undeservedly) as having a strong “tradition” of antisemitism. And yet, among the people with whom I’ve talked about the conflict, at least one half have considered the last Lebanese war as simply inevitable: “The Jews had really no choice” has been a recurrent motive of the discussions. I think this says something about how a very considerable amount of people in Europe think about what happened.
Let me finish with the statement that I am actually a left-liberal with moderately anti-American political views. And yet I said what I said.
I very much hope this can serve as a little consolation.
With very best regards,
Maciej

hank hall on Thu, Aug 17th 2006 5:57 PM


Israel should build or obtain the heavy, deep penetrating bombs that will destroy underground hideouts and storage facilities. They would have put Hezbolla out of business in short order.

Gowhar on Fri, Aug 18th 2006 6:25 AM


Why can’t you Israeli’s think beyond your two inch mindsets? Why is it always about you? Your vision must accomodate all the people… the ‘enemy’ and the ‘friend’… then your reflections might make some sense. We have to see how we steer the world out of its present confrontation… were irrespective of how we think as individuals we are forced to join the camp. I being an athiest born in a Muslim family am forced to take sides with the oppressed Muslims around the globe despite my values being democratic. They don’t give me a choice. They look at my face and call me a terrorist because i am Asian and resemble Muslims.

Stupid visionaries of the Global Empire in US decided to imagine a new confrontation in early nineties because the cold war got over, to keep boosting their military industry. The Clash of Civilizations was a hit in early nineties irrespective of being academically so poor.

Situation after situation was created to ensure that something like WTC bombing occurs. Once it occured you have a good case of realizing the clash of civilization in actuality. We are pushed by the West to become terrorists despite our natural inclination against it…. In any case we are terrorists by default. Thanks to Israel and USA and their wagdog Blair.

Brian on Fri, Aug 18th 2006 11:36 AM


From far off New Zealand things could not seem worse for Israel. There is no doubt that the attack was disproportionate. Soldiers get lost in wartime. They get captured – that’s the deal. To go out and wreck another country because this happens is unfair. Israel is acting like a bully boy in the region. If the Israeli government conceded more of the West Bank and gave back to the Palestinians that which was taken from them then there might be peace.

Ben Israel on Fri, Aug 18th 2006 6:19 PM


We keep hearing from Muslims about the route cause of the conflict being the Palestinian Arab refugee issue, well if thats the route cause why not deal with it and take your brothers and sisters out of the camps and settle them in the vast Muslim/Arab world.

The Jews did with the 1,000,000 Jewish displaced who were thrown out of the Arab world. dispossed of the homes, business, personal possessions and vast amounts of land, which is all in the hands of the Arabs now!

the REAL route cause is the Arab and Muslim Worlds refusal to recognise the state of Israel and the legitimate rights of the Jewish people to live in their rightfull home land and in peace.

If the Muslims want peace with Israel they first need to find peace within themselves as 95% of Muslims die at the hands of fellow Muslims, not Jews!

The Arab and Muslim world should stop blaming the West and the Jews for their self afflicted problems, their leaders are not Jews or Americans but their own flesh and blood.

The Arab leadership is the Arab world is only in place to serve its on needs and not the needs of it’s people, why are Arabs so willing to follow corrupt leaders or those who call for war all the time.

If Hisbolla is a humanitarian organisation why did it not build air raid shelters for the people instead of spending Millions of $ building bunkers to protect and hide missiles?

Unlees the Arab and Muslim world start taking care of the lunatics who are bent on the crazy idea of establishing a khalifa state in every country in the world they will all go to the grave early, just like Hitler and the Nazis made short tem benifits for Germany the end result was millions of dead.

There has been many great empires and nations who have tried to defeat the Jews from the Romans through to the Nazis, who survived? The Jews and do the Muslim honestly think they can achieve in defeating the jews and destroying us.

The biggest threat to Arab and Muslims are themselves, not Israel whilst the Mullers preach hate in the mosques or Terrorists like Bin Laden make Videos for al Jazirra to wind up the masses, the Jews in Israel are enjoying life and developing the future needs of mankind.

If I were an Arab I would look towards Israel and I would see what I could gain from peacfull coegsistance with Jews instead of listing to the Arse holes who claim that death is better than life, the most precuious gift!

Jan Sadie on Fri, Aug 18th 2006 7:43 PM


As usual the naysayer misses the points based on common sense!

If the attack was disproportionate then why does it appear as if Israel is the loser? The fact is that a conventional army was deployed against cowards that use human shields and who fight without uniforms. Israel shown immense constrains which is regrettable. People who are prepared to act as human shields must go down with the fighting. That is a rule of war.

The war was stopped due to international pressure and not because of the skills or bravery of the terrorists. Do not claim victory just yet because people are prepared to believe your lies and the media loves controversy…

These Muslim (cowards and terrorists) who also kill people for having the “wrong” name have no interest other than in the money they get paid to fight as terrorists. We are not so naive as to think they do it for the love of their “god” as they are quick to point out. When the money dries up these cowards will creep back into their holes.

The God of the Crusaders, the Jews and of the Christian will wipe these despicable cowards off the face of the earth with the mighty army of believers who are accustomed to years of persecution and attacks. Just look at the legacy of Christian martyrs through the ages to see that we are not scared to die. We too are willing to fight to death as men and not like the Muslim cowards. Do not underestimate us. When these Muslims (cowards and terrorists) least expect it we will rise in their midst as a mighty army of warriors that will show no mercy.

Muslims, your blood too will flow and your back will be broken and you will go down to hell and never rise again. Do consider that you might have gone too far and must carry the consequences.

Gowhar on Sun, Aug 20th 2006 2:27 PM


Seriously consider this… The Holocaust has caused some deep wounds in Jews which may have lead to serious collective mental disorder. You people just don’t have the imagination to live in peace with your neighbours… Let us assume by your definition that Arabs are backward… but why is it that furthest people are from Israel the happier they are? Why is the area so tense? Why don’t you have a single friend in the neighbourhood?

Power is not the only measure of good life… it is to do with how you are seen especially by your neighbours. Does it ever cross your imagination, instead of building a warlike nation, you actually had friendly relations with your ‘backward’ neighbourhood. That like decent nations you could also have cultural exchanges? That you would be party to development of your poorer neighbourhood. But instead you are a nuclear threat! You are hated for occupying lands and then not being able to or simply not having the will to negotiate peace.

Which decent country goes to a full blown war with its neighbour because militia from that country kidnapped its two soldiers? What explains this over reaction? Is hostility the only language you understand? Is the only way you can survive in the region by ensuring that nobody else exists? Doesn’t this sound psychopathological?

Gowhar on Mon, Aug 21st 2006 7:23 AM


This was a question posted somwhere on the net and i am posting my response for your consideration:

Muslims: What three goodwill gestures would you like to see from Israel?
Please rate your suggestions according to 1) how much good they would generate and 2) how likely you think they are to ever happen.

My answer:

1 Declare itself a secular state… with no special privilages for Jews only.

2 Leave occupied territories immediately or incorporate them as equal citizens with equal rights and dignity. Let there be elections where all have a vote and communal parties based on Jewish or Islamic right are banned from contesting. In other cases, West Bank and Gaza must be merged with bigger dominions around where their autonomy is ensured. They cannot be kept in a concentration camp for ever.

3 Release all prisoners and start diplomatic dialogue with all the neighbours and resolve griviances amicably. Be a partner in the development of the region… especially technology and education.

4. Host a major international cultural festival where various countries of the region are able to express their values through arts and performance. Stop anti Arab and anti Muslim propaganda. You just need to look through their newspapers to see the hate they are fed on.

1 I think Muslim countries would follow after some trust is built by recognising Israel as a secular democracy. And work towards making their own countries more receptive to other faiths.

2 Allow Jews to travel in the region freely.

3 Educate their children about the common history of all semetic people and shared legacy of belief in Biblical prophets. Eliminate hate statements about Jews.

4 Cooperate in all progressive efforts and help integrate Israel into the region by establishing trade relations.

I think the problem with Israel is that it makes itself evidently a colonial implant by working under US command which due to its screwed up policy is stuck in so many wars in the region. Can Israels foreign policy be one nation specific for ever? Can it simply exist on force and hate? Do such nations survive for long?

Linda on Tue, Aug 22nd 2006 12:36 PM


Just think about this for a moment: In 1999 NATO bombed Serbia because the latter was shelling and killing Albanians in Kosova in the name of fighting against KLA (Kosova Liberation Army) separatists. USA called the KLA ‘a terrorist organization’ before they changed their mind and considered them ‘freedom fighters’. Don’t get me wrong, I thought NATO action against Serbia was justified and brought an end to years and years of persecution and killing and illtreatment of Albanians. But in a final analysis, Serbia was waging a war within its own territory; while Israel launched a disproportionate aggression against another sovereign country. Where is NATO now? Why didn’t it bomb Israel military targets to birng some relief to the suffering of innocent civilians in Lebanon just like it came to the aid of innocent people suffering in Kosovo? Why these double standards? What is this hush-hush-let’s-not-offend-the-israelis western policy about?

I do not condone hisbollah methods, but I do think that the state of Israel has become a monster state, totally out of control.

Ryan Paul on Tue, Aug 22nd 2006 11:33 PM


Firstly, I’d love it if people won’t call me anti-semitic or anti-israel, because I’m just not, and I’m getting sick of being branded something I’m not.

My main thing is that Israel has either the first or second best special forces on the planet, and pound for pound are the hardest and greatest fighters on earth with the best intelligence service ever.

Why can’t Knesset use the abundant military skill it’s military has in covert operations, and/or money to bribe informants instead of killing children hiding from Israeli bombs and bullets?

Israel absolutely DOES have the right to exist, and the right to defend itself against any AGGRESSORS – that’s the key word ‘AGGRESSORS’. Children aren’t aggressors.

If Israel could put a bullet in the head of every Hezbollah member, without killing innocents, the world wouldn’t have a thing to say.

Israel does have the skill to do the right thing, AND has the funding to do it… but doesn’t :-/

Gowhar on Thu, Aug 24th 2006 12:19 PM


The point is how do we reform and redeem Israel not just to show it down. That does not solve the problem. Eliminating a nation is not the solution because in doing that we end up becoming what we are fighting.

How do we redeem Israel, US, and the ‘Muslim Word’? What we have suceeded in is pushing the rupture even deeper. This seems to be an inherent problem with modernity… to draw exact borders… to break people into clearly identifiable catagories… I was reading on partition of India and then the process of relocation of people…. apart from religion how caste and class factors played a major role in shaping identities over the time and how nationalism and religion subsumed other struggles in the society.

Presently i find myself being pushed to identify with a camp though i don’t see myslef fitting well in either…. the western civilization and muslim civilization… for me both have virtues and serious flaws…. I cannot choose one or the other… that takes away my criticality. I benefit from having been schooled into both and love growing out of either with all the accompanying pain…. Why is the EMPIRE so dumb… what are we letting them to do to us!

Israel, instead of being fascist… should have been the apex of wisdom for the headstart many jews had in education, philosophy and sciences… why o why do we hear such lousy retrograde excuses for occupation and genocide from them????

John on Sat, Aug 26th 2006 3:50 AM


First of all, I am not a jew or a muslim.
My Condolence to all of the victims of war. I think Isreal is the moden NAZI. They don’t want to live in Harmony. They used the stonage rule (the stronger, the surviver, the weak will be crush to death.) Isreal have state of the art weapons, which came from US. Isreal have the money and the power so they can do what ever they want to. Isreal kill anybody they want to. After they killed any muslim, Isreal will group them as terrorist.
Isreal can say:
WE Just killed a terrorist’s Kid (children under 18) OR
We just killed a terrorist’s woman.
We just killed a terrorist’s man.

Isreal can kidnap anybody they want to.
Isreal can say:
We just arrested a terrorist’s Kid
We just arrested a terrorist’s woman
We just arrested a terrorist’s man

Isreal can take your land territory. Isreal can have Nuclear. Basically Isreal can do what ever they want to and get away with it. US and EU wouldn’t say anything.

MY Opion:
Middle East countries can fight which each other all you want to. But all middle east country should join together as one to fight with Isreal.

For example:
EU (form to to deal with the US in Economic and Japan)
NATO
Warsaw ( communist country)
OPEC (Keep the oil price in place)

UNITED MIDDLE EAST (deal with ISREAL and economic)

Just a though…
Peace

5t on Mon, Aug 28th 2006 12:05 AM


Oh man, do I have a rant on this one.

The crippling blindness in all these anti-Israel tirades is revealed by a very simple pair of questions:

If anti-Israel “terror groups”/”resistance fighters” (however you prefer to call them) were to 100% cease and desist all violence against Israel, would Israel stop its attacks against its neighbors?

CONVERSELY…

If Israel were to 100% cease and desist all attacks against its neighbors, would anti-Israel “terror groups” or “resistance fighters” (however you prefer to call them) stop their violence against Israel?

I know the answer to the first question is unblinkingly “Yes”.

I’d like to think the answer to the second would be, “Yes” as well, but the rhetoric of these groups suggests otherwise. I see no evidence that Israel makes attacks on its neighbors out of the blue or without provocation, yet I see a horrific pattern of terrorist attacks by outspoken enemies of Israel _without_ clear and specific provocation.

One may try to argue that Israel’s occupation of land blah blah blah is provocation enough, but please, if this is indeed a true injustice, bring it to the UN. Bring it to the world court. Utilize a mature and sensible strategy to claim what is supposedly yours. Even outright war, where equally proud uniformed soldiers fight uniformed soldiers is more respectable than what we see. Instead, we see the continual targeting of innocent Israelies, a method that will never secure any progress, but terrorism is only a measure of ensuring future instability, hatred, and perpetuation of the conflict. Anti-Israeli groups are not fighting for any goal that the modern world can understand; they are fighting for a Middle East that does not include Israel.

The rational world recognizes that on the one hand we have a group of people who attack their neighbors targeting suspected criminals, murderers, and terrorists. On the other hand, we have a group of people who attack their neigbors targeting anyone at all regardless of direct culpability. Neither group is free of blame, neither side has clean hands, but the relative barbarism of the latter compared to the former makes it clear to me which side I can have no pity for.

irene on Mon, Aug 28th 2006 2:37 AM


i simply do not understand why is it that Israel is being called a ‘bully’…afterall, would you sit back and allow your hostile neighbours to kidnap your family members and keep mumb? Would you let the matter rest if the kidnappers refused to release your family and threatens to destroy you? Hezbollah rejected the return of the soldiers despite the requests and finally, the threats of Israel to launch an attack. Hezbollah knew the consequences full well and he stated very clearly that the aim is to wipe Israel out! Just because the news repeatedly broadcast the casulties in Lebanon, does it justify the kidnapping and the ruthless intention of Hezbollah intending to destroy Israel? israel suffers damaged in this war too. This is a war which they did not ask for! Israel has every right to protect themselves. Hezbollah is fighting a war on personal selfish reasons while the war strategies of Israel is strictly defensive. I’m getting vexed at comments that Israel is the ‘bully’…what would you do if you are being attacked and step all over? I rest my case…

Ross King on Tue, Aug 29th 2006 4:40 PM


Concerns about war and terrorism are shared by many people around the world. Beneath these problems is the erosion of ethics and democracy. We must begin to focus on finding lasting solutions to these and other global problems. Renewing ethics and democracy, using non-violent, legal methods is one solution.

Ethics and democracy are the foundation of social justice. With this in mind, we must find ways to ensure their continuous improvement. Possible ways to do this are presented at http://www.globalpublic.org. Suggestions for improving the solutions presented are welcome.

A short introduction to the solutions is presented below.

The continuous improvement of democracy is an old idea. Almost 2600 years ago, the Greeks conducted many small experiments with democracy, at local levels, and advanced the successful ones. This is a form of “survival of the fittest” for systems of social justice. What is preventing the public, in all nations, to once again enable the continuous improvement of democracy by conducting local experiments?

The proposal for improving ethics and democracy uses an old idea: random selection. The cofounder of western thought, Aristotle, promoted random selection as the safeguard of democracy for good reasons. It reduces the undue influence of extreme wealth and fame.

The use of random selection for social justice began at the same time as its use for individual justice. Roughly 2600 years ago, in Athens, individual justice was achieved through public jury trials using randomly selected, screened jurors. At the same time, social justice was achieved using randomly selected, screened officials. This experiment in government, using a combination of random selection and elections, was called “democracy”.

Despite any imperfections, randomly selected and screened jurors are still trusted to make fair decisions—-sometimes in life or death cases. We still trust this idea for individual justice, but not for social justice. Why not? What went wrong?

The screening process was likely its greatest flaw. However, if the challenge is to find a fair screening process, then we should look for ways to meet this challenge.

Why even use a screening process? Random selection without screening can produce negative results. However, some argue that it would bring society’s social problems directly into the public spotlight—-with a cross section of society gathered into one room. Others would argue that lack of screening would produce unwise decision-making and harm society.

Can a reasonable, practical screening process be found? How about randomly selecting county-level officials from volunteers who have served at least two terms as publicly elected city council members? Randomly select state officials from people who have served at the county level. This system would help to reduce the undue influence of wealth, fame, and mass media over the selection of government officials.

The hypothesis of this new experiment in democracy is that it will produce equal—-if not better—-results than the current systems, which have become ineffective and corrupted due to the new power of mass media. The social problems we have today are results of this corruption.

Random selection of representatives to develop a globally endorsed “global ethic” is also proposed.

All are welcome to offer their suggestions on improving these proposed solutions.

A downloadable 9-page pdf file containing the website’s text is available at the website. No donations are asked for. We only ask for your suggestions.

We all know about the world’s many problems. Now, we must begin focusing on finding non-violent, legal, socially acceptable solutions.

Social change begins with dialogue.

Good luck to all.

Ross

Leave a Comment